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Post by Fouad Berjaoui on May 5, 2003 16:25:30 GMT -5
Guys, Who is interested in a Chinese made Hi-Lift Jack ? I found one supplier in Dubai, it's a 48 inch jack. His price is 380 Dhs, but he says, he is ready to give them to me for 320 if there are more buyers (2-3). I love the idea of the hi-lift jack but never had the chance to use one. For those who don't know it, this is how it looks like : www.hi-lift.com/images/JACKS%20PAGE/hl4841.2gif.gifThis how useful it is : www.hi-lift.com/images/JACKS%20PAGE/lifting%20jeep.gifThe Jack can double as a manual winch when used horizontally : www.jeepnow.com/bbusk.jpgThe Dubai dealer has 3 sizes 20' (200 Dhs) , 33'(260) and 48' (380). If he is ready to give the 48' for 320. I am sure the others can be cheaper as well. I found another dealer in Sharjah, but he only has one size 60' and he asking 300 Dhs for it. The price is good, but the 60' is waaaaay to big (and heavy). the 48' is about the perfect size. I think we can bring the Dubai dealer's price even more down if we are 4, 5 or 6 buyers. But beware, there's a drawback on this Jack : you cannot use it on every car. The Jack needs hooking points which are stepping out of the car's body. Tow hooks cannot be used here, they will fail (I think). Although I have never used such a jack, but I suppose, logically tow hooks were designed to pull the car NOT lift it. So you need hooking points like say, a hitch for example, which is fixed to the chassis, even the hitch, some of them might fail. This Jack won't be of benefit on a new design Pajero for example, but will work perfectly on a Wrangler. TJM bumpers and bullbars....well I dont know you have to check them before you buy this. As I said, Look for strong hook position on your car, preferably related to the chassis, that can withstand the weight of the car (or half the weight). Any takers ?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on May 7, 2003 6:59:32 GMT -5
Fouad. I will take three. One for me and one each for the other guys here at the office.
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Post by Fouad Berjaoui on May 7, 2003 12:09:48 GMT -5
Ok, great how about we meet up and we'll go see the guy together, negotiate a price or something.
Fouad
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Shabber
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Post by Shabber on May 12, 2003 1:47:48 GMT -5
What was the final price for the jack?
Do u know if this fits the Patrol 2000 model with the off-road rear bumpers?
Shabber
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Post by Fouad Berjaoui on May 12, 2003 1:50:48 GMT -5
Uhm..no I don't know, sorry, Iguess you'll have to try it first.
Fouad
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Post by difflock on Jul 21, 2003 7:26:33 GMT -5
If the off road rear bumper is coming from ARB, there is a good chance the high lift brackets are on it. Any one interested in high lift, I remember that a friend of mine in Lebanon had to buy about 100 original hi-lift from the USA company in order to become the lebanese dealer. I believe he still has about 25 in stock and is asking for 110$ a piece. They do not come cheap but they are the original one. They come 60 inches long. The best would be to consilidate an order between the club members interested and ship it together. Byzway, I would like to point out that a hi-lift can be used to get a vehicle out of the sand without special brakets on the bumper. Here is how it works: You take a small strap, about 60cm long and you fit a hook on both ends. The hooks need to be strong but small enough to grap your wheels by the rim openings. You position you highlift close to the tire you want to get out of the sand. You attach the tow strap on the rim with the two hooks and pass it over the hi-lift finger. Then, by just lifting a little, the tire will come out because you do not have to lift the suspension first before the tire lifts. The point you have to watch is that as soon the hi-lift starts lifting, it will want to go against the fender (the hi-lift is higgher than the wheel). So You need also a piece of plywood (30x30x2cm) and a pillow. Put the pillow on the fender, put the plywood on top of the pillow and let the hi-lif touch the plywood....no damages will occur to your fender, no special bumper is needed and it is one of the fastest way to get tires out of the sand. Now the other scenario that could require a hi-lift is when you have the 4 tires in the air on the tip of a dune. Here, a hi-lift alone will not do the job. The distnace between the bumpers and the ground will be just bigger as the travel possibility of the hi-lif. Unless you have many wood blocks with you, it will not be possible. So if you have to arrange the special fittings for the hi-lift finger, I suggest you also put one on each side of the vehicle, in the middle of the wheel base, so when you are the 4 wheels in the air, you will lift from the side and not from the back or from the rear. Now this will still not be enough to get you going because even if the tires are out of the sand, some time, when letting them down again, not enough sand has accumulated to get the car belly clear. Here is a very cheap trick....buy an aluminum ladder. Cut it so it will fit your trunck (have a piece of about 1 meter at least). Believe me, the distance between the bars on a ladder is just what you need to get a grip to your tires. I have used this during the desert challenge and may be the aluminum was of good quality, but we did not even manage to bend it. Besides, an aluminum ladder you buy at Carrefour is about 4 times cheaper as a real sand-plate. If you have room or if you can fit the ladder on a roof rack, keep it as long as possible. Because of it's design, it can be handled in a very easy way and you will soon notice that it is also an excelent lever when a lever is needed to jerk the body of the vehicle.
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Post by Fouad Berjaoui on Jul 21, 2003 12:49:36 GMT -5
Difflock, I know your expertise is 100 times greater than mine, but I have to disagree with you on this one. Maybe I am wrong, so let's see who convinces the other scenario 1 : Lifting by the rim. I have designed a self-recovery system which uses warn manual hubs coverted to receive the hi lift. However I found one flaw in such a system, this flaw will appear not from one use, but many uses of such a method (say 10 times). With successive use of this method, the rims will bend, hence become unequal and this will damage your ride quality (no need to explain the damage here). If you try hooking by the rim side, that's even worse. Your method will work on a modified Land Rover Defender or Jeep with strong rims, but to take common vehicles like Pahtfinder or Pajero for example, I tend not to advise this method. Scenario2 : a vehicle that is dangling on a dune crest, with 4 tires in the air. Hmmmm, you want to lift by the side If you ever see me in my car in that position, DONT COME NEAR ME, hehehehe . In tis situation, the car is resting on the ground only by a "section" of both its chassis rails, if you lift it from the side, it means, one of the chassis rails will also be in the air, so the car will be resting on its side, with still 4 wheels in the air....then what ? I have naturally had many such experiences with "cresting" if we may call it. I used the common 3 methods applied in this case:[glow=red,2,300]1[/glow] sometimes (depends) a simple push of 3-4 guys will balance the vehicle in either forward or backward aloowing two of the tires to have traction again the downwards (or backward) gravity will do the rest. [glow=red,2,300]2[/glow] the usual towing by another vehicle (takes less than a minute due to minimal power requirement) and [glow=red,2,300]3[/glow] this may be new to you, I once used an AIR JACK, I went under the vehicle and pushed the air-jack way inside the vehicle towards the middle of the car (it was a ford explorer) and placed the air-jack in between the chassis rails (without touching the hot exhaust pipes), then inflated the airjack which tilted the car forward towards the down-slope. and voila, the car was free. Difflock, I have to tell you buddy, you are an EXTREME guy, if my wife see you aplying these methods to her Pathfinder...........Well I dont know what to say, she from South Lebanon, if you know what I mean, heheh Fouad
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JonME4x4
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Post by JonME4x4 on Jul 21, 2003 13:24:57 GMT -5
I can quite honestly say that I've never seen anyone use a High-lift jack in sand for recovery. That's not to say it can't be done, I just haven't seen it done.
If I get crested on a dune (and that happens a fair bit when I'm leading trips in Liwa!), I usually dig away as much sand as I can from under the vehicle and if it won't drive out after that hook up a rope from another vehicle. Quick, easy and not that much hassle.
Personally, with a SWB Patrol, space and weight is at a premium and the space taken up by a high-lift jack is more useful for other things.
They're great recovery tools for using in the rocks, but I am not 100% convinced about their use in sand. Also, as they are inherently unstable (which is why they get used to lift a car and then 'throw' it sideways a bit to clear an obstacle) you need to be well trained in their use.
Good luck guys...
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Post by difflock on Jul 21, 2003 14:37:13 GMT -5
Het Fouad,
I know you have alot of messages to read but you should read of them fully. I did not say that you can use the hi-lift to get a vehicle out of a situation where the 4 tires are in the air. In fact, I said that there is a good chance it can not be done. I was just pointing out that a side fitting for the hi-lift is good to have and then used the scenario to introduce the ladder idea , cheap and simple, and gets you out of this.
I do agree That there is nothing that beats another car pulling or towing you, but that is if there is one. I'm always assuming that you are in an emergency scenario: alone. If you are not alone, you should never need anything else but a tow strap.
Now, back to hi-lift lifting the wheel by the rim. First, hi-lift is selling several devices that fit on the hi-lift finger specialy for that purpose but they do not fit all vehicles.If your rims are not heavy duty, all you have to do is pass the tow strap within the rims holes and connect the hooks to the hi-lift finger. Works the same way as I explained except that I doubt very much any kind of Aloy wheel would bend just under the pulling stress of a hi-lift and if they do, you better change them right away anyway.
I totaly agree on the air jack. It works in no time and you can use it in so many ways. Problem is that I never could use one for more than 2 or 3 times before it gets damaged, burned or ripped off.....but it still is one item I would take with me on a difficult and long desert trip if I have to go solo.
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Post by difflock on Jul 21, 2003 14:44:28 GMT -5
Hey Jon,
Sorry I was not clear in my message about the hi-lift. Same remarks as for Fouad. All my statement was considering a scenario where you are alone. Of course, if you have a second car arround, you will never need any thing else but a tow strap to get you out of any stuck. Actually, given the heat, you should not even try to get your car out by "working" on it. In the hot desert, the less effort, the better. Nothing is less effort than a tow strap. Also, like I told Fouad, I was not advocating for the hi-lift to be good in the sand. I was introducing the aluminum ladder as an idea in the same paragraph. The hi-lift is propably the less efficient recovery device in the sand and the one I have is only used in the workshop...
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Post by difflock on Jul 21, 2003 14:54:49 GMT -5
Fouad, check out www.hi-lift.com, this is the real stuff. They offer the hook on a chain, to pull anything from anywhere. So if you buy the factory hook on a chain, all you need to do is the short strap with two loops at each end. Pass the strap in the rim opennings, attach the strap loops on the hook and start pulling your wheel out of the same. Yuo will also notice, in the same web site, the wide foot-print base that will center the hi-jack and will let it slip away.....
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Post by Fouad Berjaoui on Jul 21, 2003 16:19:32 GMT -5
Difflock, I have tried and tried many times to get a friends of mine to purchase it from the states and bring me one, I even gave them 120 dollars for it (60 for the lift and 60 for the offroad package) but with no luck it doesn;t fir in a suitcase. Ordering it through the net cost quadruple as much in shipping weight. Anyway, you are right Difflock, if you are using strong alloy wheels , yes it works I didnt deny that, but still on OEM rims, I dont think it should be used. so I stick by my opinion hehe. Another interesting fact : being alone and getting stuck alone. What to do ? Contrary to Jon, I DO beleive in the power of a hi-lift *which explains why I am eager to get one) but still there are special tools in my opnion that have to be made for it to be useable in the sand. But no matter how much you think about it, there is always the obstacle of suspension-flex, the chassis will rise but the wheels will remain (almost) where they are. and since I do not advise lifting by the rim, the only STRONG method of self-recovery (if you are alone) is a combination of Hi-Lift with Pull-pal. Jon doesnt need the hi-lift coz he has a warn winch, but he will need the puull-pal, Since I am an Anti-electric-winch too, I guess a combination of hi-lift+pullpall is the best for me. Fouad
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Post by difflock on Jul 21, 2003 17:21:27 GMT -5
Men kind created the wheel.........the day after, God had to create the electric winch for them. A winch to a car is like a woman to a man, it will get it to overcome unbelievable obstacles and will still give hope when all seems to go bad. In other words, off road driving and electric winch, as far as I'm concerned, go together. No doubt in my mind.
As far as your comment that a hi-lift olifting a car by the body or the frame will not manage to get a wheel off the ground because the suspension will open, I agree. This is a problem. I faced this several time with my big foot jeep but very fast I learned to attach the axle to the frame with a tow strap so if the frame comes up, the axle has to follow. On some cars it is easy to do but some others will not provide an attachment point on the frame i.e. monocoque bodies with independant suspension. Solid axles and a real frame are no problem.
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JonME4x4
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Veteran Club Member
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Post by JonME4x4 on Jul 21, 2003 20:33:31 GMT -5
If I were to go into the sand alone, I would take a set of sand ladders as opposed to a high-lift jack. I admit I wasn't convinced about them either until early last season, but they really do make a difference.
If you're stuck alone, they would be absolutely essential IMHO.
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Post by difflock on Jul 22, 2003 4:16:44 GMT -5
To all, Here is in a picture what I tried to explain in a thousand words.... www.uae4x4.com/jm/hi-lift.jpgI tried it, It works, and if it bends your rims,the rims where not strong enough to go off-road any way. The guy in the picture does not care about the paint job on his fender. I would still insert the pillow and the plywood plate to protect it. He also does not care about scratching the aloy rim. I would tie a strap to the wheel opening and then hold the strap with the iron hook so not do scratch the rim. Now about the challenge between me and Fouad, let's put a survey on the board and let's see what the members decide on who they believe is wright or wrong....
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