Newbie seeks GPS advice.

[marcus]

I am a complete newbie in all aspects of off-roading. I recently got myself a Discovery and want to start to have some adventures. I thought it might be wise to purchase a GPS device.

Should I get one? What should I get?

I know there have been other posts on this topic, but the recommended receivers are a bit out of my budget. Would a model in the Garmin eTrex range really be useless? Would I be better off with a compass and a copy of "Off-Road Explorer"? I'm just not prepared to dish out a lot of cash for a big, full featured model. The 4x4 was a big investment, and all the safety and other equipment that I'm starting to put together is putting a stain on my wallet. Besides, I haven't taken a sand driving course yet and I'm sure that my first few trips will be at a very 'novice' level. If I want to use an entry level receiver to check where I am in relation to paper maps, and to mark a good camping spot or POI, then upgrade the receiver as my needs/skills develop, would that not be a good idea?

If I do get a higher end receiver, what are the other considerations?

Do I need to buy maps and are the maps of the region decent? Is the MapSource Middle East really the only choice? (It seems very pricey.) Do your waypoint/route pages include maps that can be downloaded to a receiver? Are there any other costs or problems I should consider before a purchase?

And finally, do you have recommendations of where to buy/check out different GPS receivers?

Thanks in advance for your help.


PS. I use a Macintosh computer and have heard that a lot of GPS related software doesn't support Macs. Any Mac/GPS users out there with tips?

[otto]

I feel myself compelled to reply to your message as I have gone through all the issues described here. Firstly, this is a favourite topic so I suggest you search past posts on this site for advice (also some other sites of similar interests) Then my advice is to determine your needs for a GPS ie intended use, functionality such as auto routing, software availability etc. I have obviously not followed my own advice and have started with the Garmin eTrex Vista, excellent for hiking but not really suitable for in car use (due to small screen) Then onto the GPS76S MAP which solved the screen size problem and hiking needs still catered for. But then I realised that I need more and the GPS V was aquired for its all round use and auto routing ability. I am using both OziExplorer and Mapsource with street level maps for Europe and South Africa (for Mapsource). My feeling is that the ME street level maps are over priced and not of any use off road.

As being new to off roading, do not worry, you found a good club with lots of support by other members for novices. Also do not go overboard on kit. You will soon enough find out what is needed and what only adds weight to your vehicle. I would suggest that every off roader be self sufficientl, i.e. provide his own recovery gear and air compressor as a minimum.

Good luck and see you on our next trip

Otto

[Fouad Berjaoui]

Reading your initial post and Otto's reply, I think you have in a way answered your own question along with Otto.

If you are a total novice as you say, never been to the desert. I suggest you do not buy a GPS at this point. Your priority right now is to focus on your offroad driving skills and recovery techniques. Beleive me you will have very little time to allocate to navigation at this point.

As your offroad driving skills improve, and crossing the dunes becomes gradually natural to you, you will find yourself capable to focus on navigation while keeping your eye on the obstacles ahead. If you are still keen on navigation at this point, paper maps and the offroad book will do for the time being.

The waypoints available on this site are Garmin files, yet I have also included other version files to be used with Ozi explorer or any other software, so whatever GPS brand you use, using a third party software, you will be able to upload/download the waypoints on this site directly to your GPS device.

90% of offroaders in the UAE use Garmin, very few use magellan. By using Garmin, you can e-mail waypoint files and logs to friends and share them directly to your GPS without any conversion required. What I am trying to say is, you'll find life much more easier using a garmin. Although recently I have noticed an increasing number of people using PDA devices with GPS receivers attached to them, but it's a bit complicated at this stage and the cost is similar to purchasing an stand alone GPS device.

Otto is absolutely right, the e-trex range is relatively cheap but not at all recommended for incar use, they have a screen size of a mobile phone, good for hiking/biking but once you place it on the dashboard, can you see the number on your phone ?? let alone a map with waypoints.

If you buy a garmin, you have two map options : worldmap and UAE map. your garmin comes with worldmap already built into your device, UAE is included but does not have Street names. I have used worldmap for the past 3 years and am still using it. it does the job for offroad. but your garmin GPS does not come with the worldmap CD which you can use on your PC, the cd costs around 450 Dhs. (purchased separately)

The Garmin UAE map on the other hand is a map for UAE ALONE, which, besides purchasing it at 1800 Dhs, you have to load it into your Garmin GPS device. in addition, not all Garmin GPS can hold the UAE map, it;s too large in size, hence some e-trex models and even GPSMAP models do not have enough memory to handle UAE map.

UAE map is a detailed map of the UAE with street by street names and locations, just like the ones you find in modern shpisticatred cars (BMW, Mercedes, Lexus..etc). It's got nothing to do with offroad, although it can be used for offroad just like the worldmap.

My advice to you is to focus at this stage on your driving skills in offroad conditions, put aside navigation for the time being, you will be going out with clubs or friends who know their way at this stage. in 4-5 months your driving skills would have improved, then you can focus on navigation. I dont advise you to purchase an entry level GPS at this stage, save your money, in 4-5 months when your driving would improve, then you can go for a decent GPS in the 1500 Dhs range. Look how many GPSes Otto changed.

Best locations to buy a GPS are Amit trading and carrefour.

Welcome to the world of 4x4

Fouad

[Fouad Berjaoui]

By the way Otto, what did you do with your GPSMAP 76S ?? do you still have it ??

Fouad

[Bryan]

Hey Marcus,
Welcome to the world of off-roading and to the club. You might find this pastime quite addictive .

I totally second Fouad and Otto. Stay way from the Gps for the time being unless you are planning on leading a trip (which I dont think you'll be doin for a while) or venturing out on your own (which of course is totally not recomended.) Concentrate on learning to drive in the desert, let alone conquer the dunes. I know I am still learning. Don't waste your money on desert driving classes unless they are free. A few outings with the club will give you a pretty good idea of what you gotta do. I learnt the hard way by whacking my car coming down a dune too fast. Costed me Dhs 500 which aint that bad. Charged to experience. Immediately after that I kinda figured what speed and gear I need to climb and how to get down slipfaces, of course with guidance from some members. Theres always someone who will give you pointers.

To get a decent Gps it is gonna cost you at least Dhs 3000/- which would include the accessories needed. This is the cost of Garmin 60cs which I have my heart and mind set on. Gonna purchase it next year as it is out of my budget this year. Buy a air compressor instead, if you are doing sand frequently. This will save you the hassle of driving to the nearest pump. Most of us guys have Bushranger max air which costs Dhs 500.00. A worthwile investment I think.

To sum it up, take it easy man. Don't rush into stuff. Thats my 2 fils worth from an ex-newbie.

[otto]

Fouad, yes I still have the GPS as I would need it once back in SA for hiking (back packing) trips into the mountains.

I will set up the Yahoo album site today and post our photos. I have posted 3 photos of the Jeep on another clubs site as its owner (Franck?) gave permission to do that.

[marcus]

Thank you Otto, Fouad and Skeletor for your replies and for making me feel welcome.

I think I'll put off the GPS decision for a while, thanks to you guys, but I do have a couple of follow-up questions:

What does GPS/mapping software allow you to do exactly? What is the difference between MapSource and OziExplorer? Are these things essential to having a complete GPS 'package'? (I'm thinking about future budget planning.)

Before I get myself into trouble, let me see if I fully understand what you are all saying. I tend to be busy on weekends, so my club trip opportunities will always be limited. I'm hoping to make some easy trips with a friend or two on free weekdays. I would never think of 'heading out in the desert' on my own, and I would avoid even flat areas of sand for the time being, until I log some hours with some experienced people and/or with the club. But I would like to experience some of the routes in the "Off-Road Explorer" and "Off-Road in the Emirates" books. Are trips to the Hatta Pools, through Wadi Bih, and up to the mountains of Khasab advisable without GPS? On that note, are these routes okay to do in one vehicle? Do you guys essentially use GPS for when you go into "uncharted territory" or "make your own tracks" through the desert?

And finally, what and where are some decent Off-Road equipment shops (besides Carrefour and Ace)? And where is Amit Trading?

Thanks once again,
Marcus

[Bryan]

Hey your welcome. Always a pleasure to know a fellow off-roader. The phone number of AMIT is 04-2291198. They are located on deira side of the creek next to the library. AMIT is much more expensive than their sub dealers. Radio shack, Carrefour and a whole bunch of marine shops. However if you buy off the net it is about 200 to 300 Dhs cheaper and this includes shipping. Some of the sites are www.gps4fun.com and www.gpsdiscount.com.

Before joining the club I have done numerous trips into the mountains in different emirates without GPS alone. So I would say no problem, but then that would depend on how adventerous you are. Mountains are a nice drive, however never underestimate an off-road track. I have seen a few overturned 4x4's in the mountains due to people speeding round a curve and then not being able to control the car to avoid something. Hatta is very easy. Even saloon cars go there. If you are going to Hatta to camp, go to the opposite side. That way you might not have a whole bunch of people or tourists around. Wadi Bih is very scenic, but no water. If you are gonna do some rock crawling I suggest you do it with the help of a spotter, someone who can guide you over so that you don't get lodged between one. Then if you are alone you're in trouble. Luckily I have not gotten into that situation till now. But then I do not go out alone anymore. Thanks to the clubs.

Drive safe. Hope to see you on one of the trips.

[Fouad Berjaoui]

Just one thing to add on Skeletor's post. Khassab is in the Mussandam peninsula, which belongs to Omani territory. If you go from Wadi Bih, there are two border post, one for UAE border control and one for Omani border control, UAE will let you pass to Wadi Bih, but Omani border control will not let you pass to khassab. you will have to continue all the way to Dibba (just north of Fujairah.

On the GPS mapping Software : a GPS mapping software is the GPS software to use with your PC or laptop, managing your waypoints on your small GPS device with its small screen is hectic, the GPS mapping software allows to manage your waypoints, routes and tracks on your PC which of course has a much more larger screen and a keyboard. plus the GPS device (depending on model) is limited by its relatively small memory, whereas your PC/Laptop is only binded by the limit of your HDD. the GPS mapping software can aslo allow you yo communicate between your PC and your GPS device through USB or serial port. so you can upload your waypoints and tracks from and to the gps and manage them on your PC.

Mapsource is a Garmin specific software, it will not work on any other GPS brand. you can work with on your PC, but it will only communicate with a Gramin device. Oziexplorer is a third party software, irrespective of what GPS device, it will work and communicate with almost any GPS device including Garmin, Magellan, Lowrance, Sylva...etc.

Maprsource uses its Garmin's own map which is a 2D vector map, whereas Ozi is empty of maps it allows you to scan your own maps and use them, it can also take satellite image maps, in mac terms, it's like the differnce between using MAC OS 7 and MAC OS X, they can both allow you to type a letter in word document, but the graphics and looks and functionalities are very different.

Mapsource CD is for 400-500 Dhs. OziExplorer can only be purchased on the internet (www.oziexplorer.com) you download the shareware version, then send payment to the owner (75 USD) and he will send you the registration codes which unlocks the software to full version, most of us have done that.

Yes you can go to rocky areas on your own, although I dont recommend it. but do not overload your vehicle with people. If need be make sure you have at least a compass, so when looking at a map you know which way you are heading.

As for Desert, NEVER EVER go alone, and if you are a beginner, I do not even advise a 2 car convoy. I have been on rescue missions to the desert where I had to rescue 2 cars who were BOTH stuck, one car got stuck (beginner) then his friend (an experienced guy) tried to rescue him and got stuck himself. Luckily they were both stuck where they had GSM coverage, otherwise, I dont know what they would have done.

The Desert is not a joke. I can give you one advice, that summarizes a lot. As a beginner, your number one enemy is overconfidence and overzeal. Some people (mainly beginners) think they can do stuff that look harmless to them, once they get in trouble, they learn the hard way. Be carefull. Take it sone step at a time. and you'll be fine.

Fouad

[Klaus]

I only can underline what Fuad is saying. NEVER go alone even in the mountains. The GSM coverage can even be more poor than in the desert. Two cars minimum in the mountains 3 better 4 in the desert. You carry a satelite phone you are more safe if you are prepared for long waiting hours of rescue. Allways carry loads of water with you and some dry food to survive.
This region of the earth is no joke. I remember one trip we made to take pictures for the OA magazin in Musandam if I would have bin there on my own, I really would have had faced big problems on that part of Oman where only so now and then some vehicles pass. Thanks again to Inam, Fouad a.s.o.

Stay on the safe side of your life.

Also from bad experience this spring in the mountains, I now carry allways a jerrycan petrol with me. A rock hit my tank from the side. I have things with to repair, but what is a repaired tank without fuel?! So no AC - nice experience too.

We keep on learning. Drive safe and allways think about comming back in time before you leave.

Klaus

[Shaun]

Hi Marcus
Re Discovery which model did you get?
see also my post on members trips, how woz it on friday, for changes made to mine.
See ya
Shaun
White Disco

[marcus]

Thanks to you all again for the comments.

To Skeletor, Fouad and Klaus: I promise not to go into the desert alone! But I am getting some mixed messages. What are some relatively easy 'drives' that I can do with a similarly experienced friend? Do you all agree that Hatta Pools is okay? How about taking that route all the way through to Al Ain? And what about Wadi Bih? Is that okay? If there are any other routes that any of you could suggest for someone like me with virtually no off-road experience, I'd love to hear about it. I'm dying to get out there and get my feet wet, but (as I said in a previos post) I mostly have free time during the week and would probably go alone or with a friend, but in one vehicle.

And Fouad: For future reference, can I drive up the Gulf coast into Oman (Mussandam), through Khasab and into the mountains and then exit Oman/enter UAE at Wadi Bih? I think you were saying that this is possible, but not in reverse. (Also, is there a route through Mussandam all the way to Dibba?)

To Shaun: I read your mods post, thanks. I've got an '04 Disco 'S'. Mods are definitely a consideration for the future, but not something I can do at the moment. But I'm always interested to hear about what's possible.

Thanks again to you all. As soon as I have a free weekend, I'll definitely be looking to join some of you on a trip.

Marcus

[Fouad Berjaoui]

You can from RAK north to the border then crossover to khassab then through the mountains to wadi bih, but once you get to the Omani border post at wadi they 95% wont let you cross, some people had pleaded and had children and bla bla, they let them cross, but it's not certain, depends on the soldier at the border post.

Omanis have a rule when it comes to residents of the UAE crossing to oman, the post you enter at, should be the same one you exit at.

Fouad