A.M.V is interested to explore the local manufacturing of sand anchors. Unlike the competition, ours would be made out of alloy and the spade would be foldable. We need to know how many of you guys would be interested in buying one. They will weight about 15 kg and cost about 1000 AED. We are also looking into manufacturing real alloy sand plates. The plates will be designed so they can be connected to each other without tools, not slide on the sand and grip the rubber. Two types will be available: 1- light duty = you can roll on them and they will not bend as long as there is sand under them. 2- heavy duty = they will not bend even if used as ramps up to vehicles about 3000 kg heavy. Type 1 is expected to cost about 600 AED per pair and type 2 would be about 1000 AED per pair. Let me know what in your opinion would be the best lenght per plate and if you would be interested. Remember, this is just to explore the possibility to manufacture this items in the UAE. You do not commit to any purchase if you answer but give me realistic feedbacks.
The sand anchor is not yet finished. We are trying to make it as foldable or compact as possible so it will be easy to carry and as light and strog as possible. I think that within the next 2 weeks I will ask Fouad to post pictures and technical specs with dimensions so every one can see exactely what it is. However, keep in mind that a sand anchor is only good if you have a winch. The spade of the sand anchor is also a good base to put under a jack or a lift so it will not dig into the sand if you have to change a tire in the dunes....
The lenght of sand plates depends on where you want to fit them...If you have a roof rack, you may use 2 meter long plates and more...If you Have a Suzuki and you want to keep them in your trunck, you won't be able to exceed 0.8 meters....Take a good look at your car, define the place where they will be stores, measure the lenght and that's it. I would recommend to have at least 1.5m in one piece.
I do not think 2 feet of sand plates will get you far in a real stuck....For the final design, we are currently experimenting good profile. As said before, in a bout 2 weeks we will be ready with the products. So far I only need to know if there is a demand for such items or not and what the potential buyers will require. Looks like evry one so far is concerned by size and weight...we will make it a priority after the efficiency.
Post by Fouad Berjaoui on Nov 8, 2004 7:06:54 GMT -5
I already have a picture of Difflock's sand anchor, but this was taken more than a year ago and it was the very first design he made, this not the foldable one, the foldable one I dont have a picture yet.
This was all aluminium, makes it much more less weight. and like the pull-pal, the more you pull the more it digs in.
Post by Fouad Berjaoui on Nov 8, 2004 20:53:13 GMT -5
The Problem with sand anchors is you have to have a winch, and a winch costs at least 3000 Dhs not to mention the solid bumper mount and fixation which could add another 1-2000 Dhs, so you have to have a 4-5,000 Dhs equipment before you can even USE a sand anchor. I for one do not have that fitted on my car.
Your idea of a sand anchor couldn't come at a more perfect timing I am actually working on the design of a pull-pal adaptable to a Hi-Lift you know how the hi-lift can be used as a manual winch, with a hi-lift you dont need a strong bumper set up it's easily carriable, so All you have to do is adapt a sand anchor to it.
I know you can use the sand anchor and the hi-lift separately, but it's too much equipment, if they be fitted together into ONE piece of equipment, then it would be welcomed and appreciated by Offroaders
This is my personal design, I dont know of anyone who has attempted to do this, I was even thinking of patenting it but you're welcome to use it Difflock, I am using the picture of your sand anchor to demonstrate my idea. If you can do this, it would be great, you can have it as an option on your sand anchor
I was thinking of contacting Hi-Lift or Pull-pal to do this in cooperation with them, but if you can do this locally here, why not ?
The beauty of this design is ANYONE can use it, you dont have to have a winch, all you need is a 500 Dhs hi-lift jack which is already rated to pull 7500 pounds , about 3 tons.
Guys, this sand anchor - high lift combination will not work because before the car moves, the sand anchor is going deep, 2 meters sometimes, into the sand. How are you going to get the high lift to move under 2 meters of sand. If you put the highlift away from the anchor, them it will work, like attached to te car's bumper on one side, on the strap on the other side and then the strap to the anchor but you are in for a lot of time and effort. beside, I do not believe in high lifts any more (same for Emil) because theyr just not reliable in the sand and the mechanism fails quickly when used often. Also theyr very very heavy to handle under the hot sun.
Now, take a look at www.tal-and-hadas.com/wheelpull/index.htm This system is a good idea but has 3 bad points: 1- made in Israel, could be stopped when trying to import it. 2- Takes about an hour to instal all of it and get the vehicle out. 3- For a few hundred AED more you can get a small winch. We have purchased two of them, one light duty and one heavy duty and tried an expirimented with them and that is how we know how they work in real life. Also, the pic that comes with the kit and that is holding the straps to the ground is not sticking in the sand, it comes off right away...
Now, some thinking has led us to combine two ides 1: the sand anchor 2- Using the wheel as a winch.
Very soon you will have accees to a complete system, less than a 1500 AED that will allow you to pull your vehicle to the front or to the back, alone and in the softest sand. The conplete kit will be about 25 kg heavy only. Hold your horses. The system is using a bolt on rim type of device that gets attached to your vehicle rim. On that wheel, a 2 ton string will be attached so that when the wheel turns, the string is rolled in on the rim and that string, at the other end, is attached to the sand anchor...et voila.
Post by Fouad Berjaoui on Nov 9, 2004 10:38:46 GMT -5
The Wheelpul from tal-hadas, I actually thought of HALF of that when I was at the 2004 MDC, while trying to dig out the Hummer, the rubber mats went under and rolled on the tyre, so I was thinking of a way to "fix" the rubber mats on the sand, I tought of pegs but of course they wont hold.
As to your idea Difflock, you explained it to me last week, and I am sure it will work, but the question is : how effective ti will be on the long run. In theory (and this only in theory) the procedure puts too much pressure on the axle mounts. the whole process is based on wheel torque which is a good idea to use that force, but what about the axle mounts they will hold the first time and second, but on the long run, your putting too much pressure, and since today's vehicles are mostly IFS, you would be putting pressure too much on the A arms, whether it's live axle or A arms they were both designed to withstand and resist wheel travel (vertical movement) and lateral movement (sideways), but back and forth movement is not their strongest point. I am not doubting it will work, I am just doubting it's good for your front end on the long run.
As to my Hi-Lift combination, you're right, I haven't thought of that, because I simply never used a pull-pal before, it never hurts to experiment. in that case why not extend it will the problem be solved ? In this case you might ask why not attach them separately, the whole idea is to have the 2 combined into one "foldable" unit.
Car suspension as designed to take as much stress from up and down travel as from front and back motions. What I mean by this is that there is no such a thing as a strict and only up and down motion, or a strict and only back to front motion when the car is moving with the exception of the car's weight playing with the spring's ability to compress and extend. What we have, as an impact on the suspension when going forwards is actually a swing that goes back and forth from the lower front part of the wheel to the upper rear part. In other words, a 45 degrees angled combination of up/dowm + front/back motion. Thus the need for the design of a suspension or control arm to be as strong in both directions. In real world, hitting a pothole at 60 km/h will be much more stressfull for the suspension to handle the back to front impact as it will be to handle the up/down motion.....
Back to your idea, why not just fix a small strap between your vehicle tow hook and the hilift and then a longer strap between the hilift and the sand anchor ? You will need you hilift at some point without the sand anchor, to change a tire i.e....if the two are combined, it will not be easy to get arround with them....
Just a word about snatch blocks. A snatch block is used to double the pullingb power of a winch. By having the cable coming back to the car after passing by trhe snatchblock poulie on the hoock side, a 4500lbs winch will have a power of 9000lbs. Now for those of you who wold like to have a cheap winch, look for some multi-poulies marine type of snatchblock. You will find some with 4 poulies. let's do the maths: if you pull with 50kg stress over the 4 poulies it will end up to be the equivalent of 800 kg at the hoock. Combining 2 of these will give you about 1600 kgs on the hook...enough to get a car out of the sand (I said sand, not rocks or mud) The 50 kg effort will have to be done in inverse proportion of cable lenght as you multiply the poulie. So if you are using a 8 poulie system and if you need to pull your car over 2 meters to get it out, you will have to pull 16 meters of rope with a constant 50 kg line pull. Sound crazy but it works for boats much bigger as our cars and it is unbeatably cheap. For some of you, you can do some custom snatchblock with up to 10 rolls in one block. Every time you ad one more roll, you double the last power obtain so it pays to ad one extra to feel at ease i.e. if you have a 4 poulie block and you pull at 50kg, the pull at the hook will be 800 kg, ad one more poulie, it becomes 1600 kg, ad one more and you will have 3200 kg etc...ad one more and your wife will even find it funny to pull out such a big car cause of course, she's the one doing the rope pulling because you have to stay in the car and steer....unless I tell her that it is quiet easy to pull a string with a 25kg pull and be at the steering wheel at the same time....